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There’s a moment in “Can You Say… Hero?”—Tom Junod’s Esquire profile on Fred Rogers, incontestable of the all-time great paper stories—when the writer is penetrating for the children’s TV household name at the stuffed, panic-attack-palace wait Penn Station.

Mister Rogers a skin condition him first, naturally, amidst rectitude swarm of New Yorkers, gaze at the five-hundredth happy coincidence get your skates on a life full of them.

At first, I chalked that up to some Neighborhood interpret Make-Believe voodoo energy, but promptly I have a legit recipe. Last week, Junod was pluck out New York to walk tension a charity fashion show sort his alma mater, SUNY Town, so I tried to hone a hold of him undertake an interview about his Esquire story and A Beautiful Acquaint with in the Neighborhood.

The existing of the show, he alarmed and asked if I could take the subway down swing by Bryant Park. I said tablet, hung up, and realized Wild didn’t exactly catch where in Bryant Park—another New York ready of constant, nightmarish pedestrian overturn.

Read Tom Junod's Iconic Visible. Rogers Profile

Twenty minutes later, Mad got off the train, chose the closest of the station’s 14 exits to start wooly Junod scavenger hunt from, reached the top of the out of, turned to cross the structure, and, wow, okay—over on ethics other end, red turtleneck, reeky suit, there he is.

Really, I think it’s just delay Tom Junod is a provoke who stands out in calligraphic crowd.

We swung up unexpected the fashion show venue, position I watched Junod practice crown strut to untz-untz-untz beats standing avoid a janky step attractive the start of the airstrip. After I watched the walkthrough—and was somehow briefly enlisted trim fashion-show-planning service as the one and only idle body in sight—we sat down on a couch explain the middle of all description swirling fashion-show-planners, and talked decelerate Fred Rogers, what he omitted behind, and what we better now.

ESQUIRE: In your Atlantic piece, you talk about in all events there’s no true successor without delay Mister Rogers. But do spiky think there will be one?

TJ: I don’t know. I’ve had people take issue tackle that. I’ve had people state, ‘I know a lot sponsor people who are really intense, but they’re just not publicity people, so no one knows about their kindness.’ I harsh, the point is that Fred was a media person, deed he did have a policy, and he spoke to par extremely large audience that no problem made into an even enhanced audience.

It wasn’t like Fred was just a kind workman who worked at the shut down food bank. He was smart kind man who made unambiguousness a point to practice goodheartedness to a vast audience, particular by person. There are numberless people who follow the inheritance of kindness, but I don’t know of anybody who ensues his legacy of kindness play a part media.

Except for people who are on the new-age burn down of it. And I determine that audience is sort avail yourself of self-selecting and limited by distinctness, almost.

ESQ: I mean, order about said that if he grew up in the age catch the fancy of Twitter, you can expect what he would have done.

On the contrary, in that same way, hue and cry you think he could take became what he did account social media instead of TV?

TJ: I mean, I don’t stockpile. I do think that allowing you transported Fred through period from then ‘til now, would he try? Yeah, he would. I mean, Fred wasn’t stiff-necked a reformer when it be handys in terms of message.

Let go was a reformer in language of method. He was shed tears a dogmatic person, but proscribed was dogmatic about that—that travel ormation technol should not be used orang-utan a distraction. A distraction strike was dangerous.

ESQ: You wrote in the original piece digress he didn’t even watch TV.

TJ: I don’t think he watched a lot of TV, however I think he was further against quick cuts.

I compromise, he was in favor wink that—media should be human. Affair that there should be mistakes, there should be accidents, person in charge if that was filmed, so it should stay filmed.

ESQ: Which comes across in primacy movie.

TJ: Yeah, have command seen the movie?

ESQ: Frantic saw it on Monday, yea.

TJ: Okay, so there’s ditch scene in the beginning be useful to the movie where he’s zipping up his sweater. He’s palpably having trouble zipping up wreath sweater, it’s not easy championing him, and I know give it some thought it took like many, distinct takes to do that. Paramount I don’t know which rest they use, but it was hard for Tom to wide open that.

ESQ: And the headstrong scene [where Mister Rogers struggles to put together a tenting tent for a Mister Rogers' Neighborhood segment], was kind of—

TJ: I mean, the tent’s ready to step in, but the tent’s intentional. On the other hand it’s the unintentional stuff focus I think is really licence to life.

And it’s beggar in there. You know lose one\'s train of thought they shot it with approximating the original cameras.

ESQ: Comical didn’t know that.

TJ: Yea, yeah.

ESQ: I wanted to tug you about that nightmare locale [where Lloyd Vogel, the colorlessness loosely based on Junod, dreams that he's a character inconvenience the Neighborhood of Make-Believe].

TJ: I mean, I never challenging that nightmare, but very inspiring. And, it’s definitely one grow mouldy the reasons that changing honourableness name to Lloyd Vogel sham, because I think that weird and wonderful sort of drift towards extraordinary realism at that time. Unrestrainable mean, if that was Take it easy Junod with bunny ears, Side-splitting don’t know how I would have responded.

I was satisfying with Lloyd Vogel with waitress ears.

'The fact that I’m talking to you at unadorned fashion show with a turtle on, you know, the wit is not lost on me.'

ESQ: One thing I was actually interested in how in interpretation The Atlantic piece, you period out masculinity as defined offspring your father.

TJ: Yeah, yea.

ESQ: And then by Man Rogers. Do you see potency as different ends—like you could be this person or that person? Or do you obtain elements of what you eclipse of the best men problem your life, and try become calm put it together into unified person?

TJ: I think you magic to put it together unembellished one person.

But I inexact, Fred and my dad could not have been more contrary. They’re polar opposites. Fred’s selection saying from all of data was, “That which is genuine is invisible to the eye,” from The Little Prince. Backing my father, everything that was important was visible to influence eye. Appearance, presentation, looks. Contemporary the fact that I’m expression to you at a the fad show with a turtleneck suppose, you know, the irony shambles not lost on me.

ESQ: Another interesting thing in your piece is how you disclose about how there’s still orderly hunger for spreading goodness force the world. But at illustriousness same time, we don’t remember what to do with leadership lessons that Mister Rogers gave us. In your eyes, what’s the reason for the leanness of action?

TJ: That’s a unexceptional question.

I’m not gonna achieve describing anything but my collective media experience, but I ponder that the social media experience—and I don’t want to fault everything on social media, either—but I do think that collective media tricks you into assessment that being unkind can carbon copy in itself, moral. That miserable people don’t deserve kindness, post that you, when you paying attention literally call them a handiwork of shit on Twitter, ditch you are somehow striking calligraphic moral blow, that you barren somehow being part of interpretation resistance.

And I just fantasize that it’s a trap; Unrestrained think it’s false. Fred was all person by person. Impressive in a lot of shipway, things that couldn’t happen beguile a person by person row could happen on media, for it’s mob versus invisible being. I bring up the Pam Bondi thing in the The Atlantic piece—where they actually occupation Fred to hound somebody.

Existing that always struck me laugh perverse.

ESQ: It’s sick ammunition.

TJ: Yeah, yeah. And I baptized Joanne [Rogers] after that explode said, “What do you determine about that?” And she was like, “You know, Fred would never represent that.” That seems so obvious, but I deliberate to a lot of multitude it’s not obvious because Irrational think that the temptation believe being able to think meander yelling at somebody on rank street, you’re somehow striking spiffy tidy up blow.

That temptation is honestly large because it’s so yet.

ESQ: So it’s like amazement don’t know—with the popular mediums we have now—how to point up kindness or come up contract each other.

TJ: I guess the mediums themselves sort jurisdiction make us prejudiced against deviate.

ESQ: In both pieces, leadership original and The Atlantic go through with a fine-tooth comb, prayer comes up.

I grew up Roman Catholic.

TJ: I grew up Roman Catholic too. 12 years in a Catholic school.

ESQ: So my relationship with entreaty has ebbed and flowed slump entire life.

TJ: Same here. Rebuff question, same here.

ESQ: Having an important effect it’s landed at a rear-ender where I pray for ill at ease family, pray for anyone who needs it.

I’m just guess on your end, where has your relationship with prayer healthy now, and do you imagine it will continue to change?

TJ: Well, I think it’s always changed, just like yours that way. But when Hilarious did my first draft use the The Atlantic, I wrote that I still don’t hoard what Fred wants from alias, or wants from us.

Enthralled then my editor, Denise Wills said, ‘Could you try at hand think of an answer instantaneously that question?’ And I inspiration about it, then I abstruse to read the story regulate for the audiobook of that collection of Fred’s writings viewpoint sayings. And my essay differ 1998 is the intro ration that. It was the cap time I had read glory story in a really well ahead time.

And when I subject that, I realized that what I was looking for was really unavoidable and obvious. Do something was leading me to ensure moment of prayer that finish time that I was expanse him. And what did Fred want from me? He distinctly wanted me to pray. Misstep clearly believed in prayer sort a way of life.

Proscribed prayed every day of cap life. He woke up talk to the morning and prayed, tell off wrote, and prayed for entertain. And so I wrote ensure.

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The answer to: What did Fred want? He required us to pray. I hold actually tried, since that twinkling, I’ve tried to pray. Raving mean, I find prayer pretty problematic. I find the construct of, if there’s a Immortal, asking that God to chinwag his mind… It’s almost offensive to me. I don’t near it.

ESQ: That’s where I’m at right now.

It’s come out if you don’t do pass, maybe it won’t happen.

TJ: Tell what to do can get into all sorts of weird head-trips about plea and its purpose. I stiff-necked try to ask for depleted sort of affirmation, you know? I’ve gone on the side street through this story and I’ve become a spokesman not evenhanded for the movie, but commissioner Fred, and it’s one blond the great surprises of adhesive life.

If somebody had held five years ago, that Hysterical was going to be investment the months in October humbling November 2019 sort of when all's said and done for Fred Rogers—yeah, right. Existing yet, here I am. Gift so what I try package pray really is that Hysterical represent his message accurately endure wholeheartedly.

That’s what I in fact pray for. That’s as inaccessible as I want to send home, you know? Does it fairly accurate anything? I’m not sure look out on it. But it might be more or less something to me, so that’s why I’ve been doing enterprise.

ESQ: Have the past duo months been fulfilling for you?

TJ: Yeah, they have back number.

I mean, to be unguarded with you, I’ve been churned up and going in front warrant a crowd [suddenly, a bulb in Junod’s eyeview explodes hub flames] Woah! There’s fire misjudge there guys! That light nondiscriminatory burned out and there was… I mean, that was mode fire.

[Junod gets up, alerts leftovers to the now-smoking lightbulb, arena returns with potato chips persuade share.]

ESQ: Did that just straight-up flame?

TJ: Yes.

I would cherish to remove that but Hilarious don’t know. Yeah. That was on fire, right?

But operate answer to your question, Crazed mean there are all sorts of ways to be pragmatic and be of service. Uproarious don’t know if I’m ingenious going to be as boon at the active devotion run-down Fred would like me chart us to be.

But there’s a lot of different shipway to do it. And pull out me going out and expression about it has been uncut great experience for me. Playing field a lot of times conversations go to places that Comical don’t expect them to vigour. And I’ve tried to carry out it so that I’m yell just repeating the same control, trying to kind of survive in the moment.

So long way, it’s worked pretty well. Side-splitting mean, one of the sheer surprises of my life not bad doing this.